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AMZ: I want to start out with your time in Austin before you moved to Seattle
and started Desert Rain records. Were you signed with a label at the time? I
know your music was beginning to get popular out there and one song in
particular, "The Climb," was a big hit with local radio there.
MT: When I was in Austin, I was one of those typical guys working a day job
and looking for a career in music. I was working three days a week in a bike
shop and then I played clubs at night. In the early to mid 80's, Austin was
so alive...there were probably 300 venues in Austin alone and a wide variety
of things down there and it's really hard to ever surface from that. In my
travels to the Northwest, I saw a tv story about a man who had climbed Mt.
Ranier with one leg. What a strange story that is. I would never have planned
to write a song about that; It just seemed to come. I was moved by what I saw
and so I started writing a song for him. I recorded a simple version of it at
a friend's house and I sent it to him, and when I got back to Austin I just
thought that was the end of it. About six to eight weeks later I was
contacted by someone who said that song had been given to a radio station and
become the number one song in their history. You can imagine how shocked I
was. I just wrote a little personal kind of congratulations, something you'd
write for a friend, so how odd that that was a success. So I came to Seattle
to play a concert and I was absolutely stunned because they had to turn away
several hundred people, and they were all there for one song. I showed up and
I realized I didn't really have anything to play but that one song. I had
convinced myself, in that kind of self-sabotage you have when you are afraid
to be disappointed, that it was just a popular place, that it was just a big
Friday night and they always come here. When I did the opening chords of 'The
Climb,' it was like thunder and lightning in the room and it was really the
first time in my life that I really knew...I had a strong feeling that
something powerful was going to happen in my life and in the way of my music
being heard and received by people.
I went back to Austin and continued to play in clubs and then came back to
Seattle for one more visit...This time I had given them another song...Here's
a funny one for you...The radio station that had played 'The Climb' so wanted
another song that they bought the studio time for me to record it...In this
day and age when people are screaming to get on the radio I had someone
paying my recording time...That song, "Yellow Windows," also went to number
one and I realized there was a home here for me....whereas in Austin I was
playing the clubs, in Seattle I was a concert performer...When I moved here I
could play concerts and people would show up. They paid to come to a concert
and that was beyond my dreams. So I left the club scene, spent a couple of
years performing and began working on my first album and put it out on my own
label.
AMZ: Was the label, Desert Rain, basically founded so you could keep creative
control of your music, knowing what you had learned from the Austin music
scene?
MT: Eventually that's what happened, but at first I was like everyone else. I
wanted to be discovered. Even though it was just one radio station at the
time, I couldn't believe I wasn't being discovered on a larger level. I was
in newspapers. I was on TV. I was the number one requested artist on this
station and I thought some record station would get wind of this and that
wasn't happening so it was basically that I had to have a vehicle to get my
music out. I decided to put the album out myself believing that now I'll get
discovered. Within a few months, the album, "Run This Way Forever," sold
15,000 copies in Seattle. It was unheard of back then with independents. Then
I got a great break from a radio station programmer out of Phoenix. He had 7
stations of what he called Eclectic Oriented Radio. He requested my album and
sent it out to stations he consulted for. Here's where the magic comes in. On
all 7 stations I had the number one song of the year and what blew me away
was with each station it was a different song.
So I was having all this success with my own label but I still thought
everything was about getting signed with a major. And this new independent
label under Polygram signed me to a deal. I was excited. I did a 4 record
deal with them and my first single, "Dawning of a New Day," hit number 8 on
the AC (Adult Contemporary) charts. I was very excited but immediately I
started noticing things were different than they told me they would be. For
instance, I was out doing shows, I had a top ten single, and none of the
stores had my albums. It was pretty shocking to me at the time. This went on
for some time, then other things you run into with a label were
happening...they would remix my songs without my permission..just typical
things...Through a loophole I was able to get them to revert ownership of my
records back to me. I did one more record deal...I thought "These guys I
really trust"...the label was Mesa/Blue Moon...Then typical things like
finding out my records are being sold in other countries and I'm not aware of
it and I'm certainly not aware of any royalties...I had only licensed them my
fourth album, "Living Things," and I managed to walk away from that deal and
get away with my music. It took me about five years to get back into stores
after that because the record company had pulled my albums from the stores.
That was when I decided I needed to do these things for myself. Other labels
have approached me and I've listened to them and they'd say things like "We
really want to treat the artist with respect," but as it got closer I'd hear
the same old talk and it was still a 50 page contract.
AMZ: You've even seen it recently with a band like Wilco who, even as
successful as they were as a band, submitted their latest album and had their
record label basically tell them "We want it to sound like this." So they
left the label. Do you see more of that happening as record labels try to e
xercise more control over their artists?
MT: Oh yeah! And nowadays we can sell direct online and we can sell our music
numerous different ways. Sure, I would rather my music be bought by a million
people, but I can make more money personally selling 100,000...I could
probably make more money selling 50,000 albums myself than selling a million
with a record label. Something is wrong with that picture.
AMZ: As far as your albums go, I've only had a chance to listen to the latest
two CD's, "Trace The Sky," and "Watching The Storm Roll In." I enjoyed them
both but I think my favorite was "Watching The Storm Roll In." It was all
acoustic. I think it served as a reminder to me that, though it's great to
have the wall of sound sometimes, how magical just an acoustic guitar and
vocals can sound.
MT: That's good to hear you say because I am such a believer in that. I am a
songwriter. I believe in a good song. The truth of the matter is, you can
take a very mediocre song and produce it into something wonderful, and I'm
not against that. A lot of the great pop tunes in the world wouldn't stand up
to just a piano and voice or a guitar and a voice and yet they are wonderful
productions. But I have a real respect for something that a person can sit
with just a guitar and a voice and really blow you away.
AMZ: I agree. A lot of pop is ear candy and it feels good, but you get someone
like a Bob Dylan that with his guitar and his lyrics can just do amazing
things.
MT: There hasn't been a lot of emphasis on that in the last decade and a
half. Now it does exist and it won't quit existing but it's been very
unpopular for us and we haven't had many places to surface. It'll turn around
again and again. I've had people come to my concerts and bring a buddy that
was into heavy metal and didn't really want to come, but he'd come and he'd
listen, and afterwards he walks up to me and says "My God! I didn't know a
person could do that. I didn't know that much emotion..that much story..that
much meaning could come through from just a guitar and a voice." When you let
it be your world...when you don't think of it as less than..it makes a
difference....When I did "Watching the Storm Roll In," what I had in mind was
a peaceful time. I had in mind doing some songs in a gentle way and in an
emotional and powerful way that would kind of get rid of the noise for a
little while. Everyone's fighting traffic...everyone's breathing polluted
air...everyone's got deadlines and bills to pay. I feel like what I bring
people is a breath of fresh air. I give them a chance to find a little peace
and a little sense of pleasure in their own small world.
AMZ: From the quotes I've read about your live performances, your concerts to
a lot of people are very moving, uplifting experiences. Do you have plans for
any sort of live album?
MT: I would like to do that and I'm looking at a couple of things right now.
I am doing a concert in Scottsdale...a benefit for Wild Horse Ranch
Rescue...It's a wonderful organization that rescues horses that are going to
be put down and takes them in...And the benefit performance is going to be
digitally videotaped and broadcast to a college radio station. I'm hoping
parts of that will be useable for me to be able to put together something
that is live concert footage with interview footage with various things that
will be to at least a large degree live performances. I may well do a live
recording also but I prefer to do that with at least a partial band simply
because right now I have 8 albums out and two of them are solo acoustic and
the fact that a live solo acoustic album would be so similar to the other two
that I want to do a little something different. I might add a cello and a
percussionist or a couple of singers so it puts it into a little different
realm.
AMZ: How did the idea of the Retreats you put on come about? I know you're
planning to take a break from that for a little while.
MT: Yeah...I think I'm going to skip a year and hopefully start back up next
fall. How they started was an odd thing: Starting back in the 80's at all my
concerts I'd always spend time in the audience at intermission and after the
show. When I was playing locally in Seattle that was easy. When I started
playing places like the Greek Ampitheatre, Universal Ampitheatre, the
Wolftrap...places where there were thousands of people, I actually though I
won't be able to do that any more...I don't know why..I just thought you
can't do that when you're playing for a lot of people...but once I was at the
Universal I just decided to do it anyway...I stepped out there and there were
thousands of people around me and I just felt comfortable...and the people
were very genuine and respectful....I have a history of being real connected
with my audiences and in Seattle there used to be an annual whitewater
rafting trip where 3 busloads of people would raft, do a salmon cookout, I'd
do an outdoor concert and then we'd have bus parties on the way home. Those
sort of set the tone for later because I was sort of the ambassador and the
host for the day. I'd be comfortable whereas some performers are never able
to cross that line because there seems to be a barrier between the stage and
the audience. In about 1993, this is kind of an odd story, a friend called
and said that in every meditation she had been having she was getting visions
about me and she said they wouldn't stop until she told me about them. She
said you're being told to host a retreat...You don't need to know what you're
doing...
AMZ: Kind of like my interviewing...
MT: But in a way that's what's good, isn't it? You can walk away going "Well
hell, that went pretty good..." So, I trusted in what she had said. The next
day I called an old army base that hosted retreats, I put the word out across
the country, and 130 people showed up for my first retreat. It was amazing.
And to this day I plan them in the sense that I create a space, a place for
you to be, and in that space there's lots of room and lots of freedom. It's
really a weekend of people coming together in goodwill. It's not a religious
thing. It's about laughter and having a good time. The retreats are called "A
Gathering of Friends" and that's what it is. There is a spirituality about it
but only in the way that there's a spirituality about everything in life.
It's a wonderful thing and having them has taught me a lot. For example,
every person on this planet has a story that will leave your jaw hanging, if
you give them the chance.
AMZ: I think when a performer interacts with the fans to that level it's very
appreciated by the fans because it makes them feel like they're a part of the
music as opposed to just another sale for the artist when they plunk down
money for a CD.
MT: I agree and I think people can tell when it's genuine. It's something
I'll always do. There are so few times in the world where you have something
to give someone, and I do. I have something to give people.
AMZ: I think there is an idea out there that one person can't change the
world, which may or may not be true, but that doesn't mean one person can't
change another person's day or life.
MT: And that does change the world. It's hard to imagine that one gentle
thing you do really matters but one of the proofs is: How many times you been
walking somewhere and out of the blue someone smiled at you and you walked
away grinning like an idiot. Someone smiled at you and now you've carried it.
The other thing I have learned from my retreats is this: when people come
together and there's even the tiniest bit of goodwill, miracles will happen.
Someone will leave that having felt a healing...some forgiveness...some
realization that they were there for a reason. I definitely believe in
sharing my music and putting it out there in a much more personal way than
just selling my CD's and forgetting about it.
AMZ: This brings me to another question, and I hate to make a 180 like this,
but you have written some very touching and romantic love songs. Do you ever
think you could write the opposite...something along the lines of "I don't
mind going to hell as long as I see you there..."?
MT: I hadn't thought of it quite like that...I thought you were going to say
something along the lines of that first Alanis Morrisette hit...what was it?
AMZ: "You Oughta Know"
MT: Right. I had a feeling you meant something like that. Oh boy. I don't try
to pretend that I'm not a person that gets angry. I don't try to pretend that
I don't get irritable sometimes. But with my music, I think it's something
I'm holding up to the world. I'll talk about my fears. I'll talk about my
shortcomings. But I won't hold up rage. I'm not gonna hold up vindictiveness.
Those things exist and I acknowledge them but I don't hold them up as a
beacon. The few times I've started a song like that, and there was any sort
of blame in it, I've known that it was just something for me to work out. In
a discussion I'll say things that I wouldn't say in a song. I just hold music
as a special thing that should in some way celebrate or reflect a gratitude
for being alive.
AMZ: There is a Buffett live album that I listen to quite a bit and in
introducing "Havana Daydreamin" he talks about being asked if he had a
favorite song he's written. Do you have a favorite song or songs that you've
written?
MT: I can speak more in terms of the artists who are absolutely phenomenal to
me and that's Joni Mitchell, and Van Morrison, and Bruce Cockburn, and James
Taylor, and Paul Simon, and there are others in that mix, but there are few
to me that touch Joni Mitchell or Van Morrison...There are few that can touch
them in body of work...in consistency...and in exploring meaning in their
music and so I can say I can never even begin to pick a favorite song or even
a cluster of them.
AMZ: As far as "classic" artists go...artist that have been around for a
while...the one I haven't seen live that I would kill to see live is Van
Morrison.
MT: I got to see him, Joni Mitchell, and Bob Dylan the same night...the same
concert...and it was astonishing...I had seen Dylan before and certainly just
to lay eyes on an icon like that means something to you...I am not a
tremendous live performance fan of his so that wasn't as important to me at
that time but I had waited my whole life to see Joni Mitchell and Van
Morrison and to see them live the same night was astonishing. Joni was like
watching a dream because you know dreams are fleeting and you can't hang onto
the feeling of them, but with Joni I swear you could. And Van...He stands
there with the hottest band on earth and he doesn't move. Just a little guy
with a hat on and a black suit. He's not a showman. He is immune. He is
belting songs out and the whole crowd, even people who can't dance can't wait
to dance when he is playing.
AMZ: As far as ones you've written yourself do you have any you feel are...I
don't want to say you think of something as the greatest song you've ever
written...but that you think just really captures what you are trying to say?
MT: I feel that about a lot of my songs but certainly not by any means all of
them. I am a fan of my own material because I work hard at it, and I believe
in it and feel it in an honest way. Now you can listen to a song and
certainly not be a fan of how you produced something back in 1986, but I
generally produce things for the most part as a song and not a trend. But
I'll give you an example of something that happened in Denver. I was
performing there last year. To sing live at a concert when there is good
sound is an amazing thing. You know how it sounds when you sing in the shower
and how resonant it is?
AMZ: Unfortunately.
MT: Well..you know what I mean. Anyway in that kind of concert situation I am
playing with my voice. I was fortunate enough to be given a voice that does a
lot of things and I love exploring that. In concert like that I'll just be
lost in a song, and I finished a song called "Sunlight," back from my second
album, it's a romantic song...and I finished it...and the audience was
applauding and I said something like "You know...this is gonna sound immodest
but damn that is a good song." And I was truly being honest and I was
admiring that song, not as something that was my creation, but something that
was fantastic. I could hear it as if I hadn't written it. But even though we
are channels for this material, we are fortunate that much of it comes
through us. If you are going be a good writer you need to be patient with it.
When I listen to pop music..when I see TV shows..when I read books, I'll
think "This is nearly great. And the one reason it's not is that someone was
impatient." They allowed the first rhyme they came up with...they allowed the
first plot turn they came up with...They didn't give it enough time to see
what could come through that was magical. And the fault of that is usually
someone else has told you that it has to be finished next week. The fault is
deadlines. I've chosen to live in a different way and the price of that for
me is the loss of a career that was at one time skyrocketing. I don't own a
house. I rent a house. I don't know when the next advance will be..where the
next show is coming from...what I'm going to do exactly...I do have those p
roblems but at the same time that's life..that's everyone...The great gift of
it for me is that I don't have deadlines.
AMZ: I was gonna actually throw in something about not having deadlines, but
since my editor will read this interview and since I'll probably be canned
from the magazine for saying that...I've recently moved north..for work...and
one thing I miss is being near both New Orleans and Memphis...the music scene
in both places is great...and you've lived in both Austin and Seattle which
also have amazing music scenes...
MT: I'll tell you what was so great about the Austin music scene when I lived
there...In those days just playing the clubs there would be Lyle Lovett,
Stevie Ray Vaughn, Nanci Griffith...Just playing the clubs down there...same
clubs I was playing...And what would be cool was...just on 6th street for
example...there were 20-30 clubs on 6th street..And when you come out of a
club on your break the band splits up...and one guy goes over and plays with
a bluegrass band...one guy plays with a jazz band..and one guy plays with a
punk band...and then they come back and that's the kind of mix that was
happening. It was so good in the early 80's when there was such a punk
influence and such a new wave influence happening in music and it was so cool
to see all those different influences merging and to see something as diverse
as a bluegrass and punk band.
AMZ: I think at that time, given that punk was viewed as an angry movement,
and given some of the punk artists mannerisms and dress that there was a
tendency to pigeonhole them, perhaps unfairly, so that it was hard to believe
that they also listened to bluegrass, jazz, etc.
MT: And I do think that there was a time that if you came from Appalachia,
you played a certain type of music or if you came from New Orleans you played
a certain type of music, but we are so world-influenced now. It's so much
healthier. I just love that. Kids surprise me. You see an 18 year old and
they're listening to James Taylor and NSync, and Bill Monroe and the Blu
egrass Boys and I like that because there's so much to gain, and so much to
appreciate in life from all types of music.
AMZ: Of course you can take it too far and say something like "Man, I'd just
love to see KISS tour with Alison Krauss"
MT: It's been taken there I think. I might have been on a few of those bills.
AMZ: One of the things I love about New Orleans...and I haven't been to the
Bumbershoot Festival in Seattle..which you've played..but they have the Jazz
and Heritage Festival every year...and they offer nine stages of music...and
the diversity of music there is phenomenal..you'll find yourself dancing to a
style of music you've never even heard before.
MT: And I'll tell you one thing I really love about the festival scene: acts
have much more longevity. Taj Mahal, for example, is probably around 60 or
so. And you'll see these acts that are very viable today. They have much that
younger musicians can learn from and you don't see them much except at
festivals. Also you get a broader mix. You usually just pay one price to get
in and you have all the choices available to you.
AMZ: We talked earlier about the 'invisible' barrier between a performer and
the audience. Do you think artists are becoming more innapproachable or less
inapproachable?
MT: I think there is a trend to become more approachable. I know in country
music they have fan fests, a huge huge thing where people come from all over
and all these major country stars are there signing CD's. There is a move
towards it becoming more personal and I think it's more personal in many ways
on the internet. People who are huge stars that didn't feel they could step
out there....Let's say Peter Gabriel who attracts 20,000 people to his
concerts...He might not be that comfortable walking out there and signing
autographs but I guarantee you he'll send e-mails to people. I'm at that sort
of mid-level. I'm not a huge star and I'm not a guy just starting out, and
there's not a day that goes by that someone doesn't profess shock to me that
I answer all my own e-mails. I may not have always had time to write
individual responses, in which case I'd write one long humorous response and
send it out to everyone, but I let people know that I read their mail, every
one that I receive, and I appreciate it.
AMZ: I know your website has a listing of concerts you have coming up but is
there a way a listener can go to your website and subscribe to some sort of
e-mail notification of when new concerts are scheduled?
MT: I've been trying to set up a database for that purpose, because it's
getting so expensive to send out a newsletter, but if I'm going to do a show
in the DC area, and I have fans that I know of in that area and also in
Pennsylvania and Virginia, I'll send them all a postcard to let them know.
The ideal thing though is for people to come to my website,
www.michaeltomlinson.com, and sign up for my mailing list, and I do state on
there that their privacy is of upmost importance to me and I have never
shared my mailing list with anyone nor will I. I think that's important to
let people know that these days because as you know from spam e-mails that
practice isn't always followed. Also on the website, I frequently update my
concerts as soon as there is one, so they can always go and check and see if
something new has popped up. As you've seen I have countless pages on that
website. My webmaster goes kinda crazy cause I'll have an idea and say "Hey,
put this up on the site."
AMZ: One more thing: Do you ever plan on looking for other artists for Desert
Rain Records or is it primarily a vehicle to get your own music out?
MT: I may look at other artists at some point, but right now it is primarily,
as you said, a vehicle to get my own music out. Along those lines, I'm
currently in the process of changing distributors and right now the only
place people can purchase my CD's is on my website.
AMZ: Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today.
MT: Thank you. I really appreciate the time you've given me.
